Sequence of Apocalyptic Events
Originally Written 9-20-04...
FIRST ROUGH DRAFT – NEW ATTEMPT AT RECONCILLIATION OF SEQUENCE OF APOCALYPTIC EVENTS
Purpose – There seems to be some confusion, at least on my part concerning the apocalyptic events as given in Matthew 24, when compared to those in Revelation. The confusion stems from the very clear reference to signs in the ‘sun moon stars, etc.
Jesus affirms that these signs, whether literal or indicative of some great shaking of nations, institutions, etc is immediately at the CLOSE of the period of ‘great tribulation’ and immediately PRECEDE the time of his appearance and second coming. Joel also states that the sun should be darkened and the moon not give light BEFORE the ‘great and terrible day of the Lord’. We affirm that the day of the Lord is to be contrasted with the great tribulation – one being man’s wrath against God’s people, and the latter God’s punitive wrath on the nations. Jesus’ return is explicitly IN the day of the Lord and thus follows the great tribulation.
In spite of arguments to the contrary, arguments with which I myself have asserted and defended, there seems to be a clear parallel of Matthew 24’s reference to the ‘sun moon and stars’ within the SIXTH SEAL of Revelation.
The evidence seems quite clear that the FIFTH seal at the least (or perhaps the prior four seals) with its reference to Martyrdom, and that more brethren must be killed – it seems to me that this may denote a time of ‘great tribulation’.
This seems borne out by the facts that the said martyrdom of the fifth seal is immediately followed by the signs in the ‘sun moon and stars’ delineated under the sixth seal.
Further evidence is given in the fact that the sixth seal seems to announce the great day of the Lord and the impending wrath to follow.
All of this seems to parallel Matthew 24 in a most uncanny way. Further evidence is borne out by the fact that after the sixth seal we are told of those who CAME OUT OF TRIBULATION – THE GREAT ONE. This indicates that THAT THERE MUST HAVE BEEN SOME MENTION OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION IN WHAT WENT BEFORE – NAMELY WITHIN THE PRIOR SEALS.
Matthew 24 gives a clear sequence – Great Tribulation, the signs in the sun moon and stars, the anguish of the nations during the ‘sign of the sun of man in heaven’ and his gathering of the elect and second advent – the events following the signs in the sun, moon, etc being those events of the ‘day of the Lord’
Our current (and now questionable) understanding is that the events of the sixth seal DO NOT parallel the signs in the ‘sun, moon stars’ etc as described in Matthew 24, but rather are a description of the eclipse of the truth and the introduction of doctrinal heresies in the fourth century which brought down the judgment of God.
It has been my position that at the time those in the Roman world believed that they were in fact living in the days of the Lamb’s wrath due to the horrific judgments which began to fall upon the Roman world, and hence the declaration that ‘the great day of His wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand’ as stated under the sixth seal.
Given the above, however, this seems a bit troublesome. The parallel of the events of the sixth seal – the reference to the ‘great tribulation’ and the day of the Lord seems as though the sixth seal is addressing those very events as given in Matthew 24. The reference to the ‘day of his wrath’ under our current understanding would only then reflect a PERCEPTION of those who lived in the Roman world of the 4th century and NOT ATUALLY A REALITY OR FACT -ALTHOUGH THERE IS NOTHING UNDER THE SIXTH SEAL WHICH WOULD LEAD US TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE LORD’S DAY HAD NOT COME IN REALITY, BUT ONLY IN THE PERCEPTION OF THOSE IN THE 4TH CENTURY.
Now the fact is, if we understand Revelation in such a way so that the trumpets are subsequent to the seals, and thus the bowls subsequent to the trumpets, then an understanding which makes the sixth seal coincident with the ‘sun moon etc’ of Matthew 24 seems completely impossible. It would be impossible for many reasons, but the following may suffice:
1) The tribulation would be over before any trumpet or bowl judgments took place. Remember that the signs in the sun, moon, etc FOLLOW the great tribulation. This would place all the events of the trumpets and bowls AFTER that period of great tribulation.
2) In our recent paper ‘Whoso Readeth, Let Him Understand’ we believe to have proven what the great tribulation is, being the time between the destruction of Jerusalem and the time immediately preceded by Jesus’ second advent, announced by the said signs in the ‘sun, moon, etc’
3) Daniel and Paul clearly place the Man of Sin, and his time of 1260 years WITHIN that period of tribulation.
4) Revelation places this Beast within the trumpets. If the trumpets are subsequent to the seals, and the sixth seal equals the astronomical signs of Matthew 24, then trumpets would FOLLOW the great tribulation, thus placing the reign of the beast AFTER the tribulation. As noted however Daniel makes it clear that the beast functions DURING the tribulation… therefore the two lines of thought seem incompatible.
I propose that in order to be more consistent in interpretation WE MUST TRY TO ALLOW THE SIXT SEAL TO BE THAT WHICH IT SO OBVIOUSLY SEEM TO BE – A DIRECT REFERENCE TO THE SIGNS IN THE ‘SUN MOON START ETC’ IN MATTHEW 24. We must also attempt as best we can to allow the ‘great day of the Lamb’s wrath’ as announced by that seal to be exactly what it purports to be.
It should go without saying that there is an undeniable principle of recapitulation within the Book of Revelation, in which one and the same time period is addressed by more than one passage. We note this in the following:
The sixth trumpet takes us first up to the destruction of Constantinople and the fall of the eastern Empire at the hands of the Turks. Then it describes the giving of the Scriptures in the following reformation. But then it must back up in time to describe the trampling of the temple by the Gentiles for 42 moths, and the prophesying of the witnesses – both events which do not begin subsequent to the prior mentioned events of the sixth seal, but PRIOR to those of events by many years. Thus the trampling of the temple court, and the prophesying of the two witnesses began BEFORE the events initially described by the sixth seal.
The text moves back and then takes us forward because the END of the 1260 days of both the witnesses prophesying and the trampling of the temple court IS SUBSEQUENT AND REPRESENTS SOME OF THE FINAL EVENTS OF THE SIXTH TRUMPET. The final events of the sixth trumpet being the rousing of the two witnesses and the ensuing signs following that event.
Then we are introduced immediately to the seventh trumpet, and the opening of the temple in heaven. But beginning in Chapter 12 the text once again goes BACKWARDS and describes both the Woman’s flight in the wilderness for 1260 years, and the reign of the two beasts in Chapter 13. Both of these chapters portray events which are NOT subsequent to the seventh trump, but rather PRECEDE the seventh trumpet.
It cannot be shown with any exactness exactly where these events fit in within the preceding trumpets, but it IS CLEAR that they belong to a time preceding the sounding of the seventh trumpet, and not following it. The narrative does not begin again in sequence until Revelation 14:1 which is the logic sequel to Revelation 11:19. Thus there is a principle of recapitulation in Revelation which cannot be denied.
Without detail at this time, I propose with great caution, that the same principle of recapitulation might be viewed within seals and trumpets, namely that the trumpets are not subsequent to, but rather recapitulate some of the material given in the seals.
For example in Revelation seven, after the opening of the sixth seal and announcing that the day of the Lamb’s wrath is at hand, there seems to be a break in the vision in which God’s servants are sealed, and the a great crowd is pointed out. Now of the great crowd it is said that they CAME OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBUALTION. If this is so, and if the sixth seal parallels the material in Matthew 24, then the salvation and cleansing of the great crowd occurred PRIOR to their mention here… in or during the judgments of the fifth seal, or even perhaps the prior seals.
Because the vision of the 144,00 seems linked to that of the great crowd, it also seems reasonable to suppose the sealing of the 144,000 took place DURING the previous seals, and NOT SUBSEQUENT to the sixth seal. We noted above how the text of Revelation backs up, gives more information, and then brings us back forward in time. Could this be the case here?
Might it be possible that Revelation 6 describes the six seals and takes up right up until the brink of the Day of the Lord, then in chapter seven pauses to tell us that God’s elect would be sealed during those times of tribulation as well as the fact that there would be a great harvest of mankind as a result of that tribulation. Thus Revelation 8:1 is the logical sequel to 6:17, with the intervening material of chapter 7 being a recapitulation of the first seals. If this is so then it might also seem plausible that the trumpets (at least the first six – more on this later) sound BEFORE the opening of the 7th seal, and not subsequent to the seventh seal. The seals take us forward to the day of wrath, then the trumpets move backward and take us forward again.
Consider this also, that the day of the Lamb’s wrath (the day of the Lord) is announced with the opening of the sixth seal… that is, it would follow shortly following the events of that seal. Why then do we read at the sounding of the seventh trumpet that ‘THY WRATH IS COME’? If the trumpets are subsequent to the seals then the ‘Lamb’s wrath’ would have started many centuries earlier. ‘Thy wrath has come’ indicates the beginning of the day of the Lord, but if the sixth seal is allowed to mean what it says, then that day of wrath would have had to have begun in the 4th century… UNLESS IT MAY BE THAT THE TRUMPETS RECAPITULATE THE EVENTS OF THE SEALS.
Therefore the logical sequel to Revelation 8:1 is not the seven trumpets, but rather the sounding of the seventh trumpet.
If this recapitulation is true, notice then that the slaying of the two witnesses would not only coincide with the astronomical signs of Matthew 24, but ALSO with those of the sixth seal… and just as the wrath of God is announced in sixth seal as that which is soon to come, but we also read immediately in the seventh trumpet that ‘thy wrath is come’. As there is an earthquake announced under the sixth seal, so is there an earthquake associated with the sixth trumpet on the ascension of the witnesses to heaven.
Because the resurrection signaled by the 7th trumpet must take place IN the day of the Lord, then the day of the Lord and the opening of the seventh seal must take place BETWEEN the ascent of the two witnesses and the resurrection. We read that the after the sixth trumpet the seventh comes ‘quickly’ but not ‘immediately’ see timeline. We also read in Rev 8:1 that at the opening of the sixth seal there is silence in heaven about the space of half a hour’.. . this may indicate part of the time between the beginning of the day of the Lord and the sounding of the seventh trumpet which takes place in that day.
I should point out that I believe that the bowl judgments are absolutely subsequent to seals and trumpets and that THOSE judgments represent the judgments associated with the Lord’s Day. They represent the wrath of God, not the great tribulation.
In short it seems to me that the seals sketch out two great epochs – the great tribulation, and the Day of the Lord. These two epochs are then detailed, the trumpets being the events of the great tribulation, and the bowls beings the events of the day of the Lord. The 144,00 are on earth during the prior and in heaven during the latter, hence their first mention exactly between these two epochs as sketched out in the seals.
FURTHER COMMENTS
If the great tribulation precedes the opening of the sixth seal, as a comparison with Matthew 24 would seem to indicate(as is also indicated by the reference to those who CAME OUT OF the great tribulation) then we might ask in what way this might affect our view of the first four seals.
I might ask if it might not seem possible that the first rider on the white horse is not only Rome prosperous and conquering, but might it be a presentation of Rome that conquered and destroyed Jerusalem. That desolating of Jerusalem was to mark the start of the great tribulation… might it seem fitting that the seals begin exactly with those events which began the tribulation. This then would match Matthew 24 and Daniel 11, that the great tribulation is bounded by the destruction of Jerusalem on one end, and the signs in the sun moon and stars (the consummation) on the other end. Thus we read after the sixth seal of those who had come out of the great tribulation.
---------------
Notice also then a seeming type of parallel… after the sixth trumpet there is a shift backwards in time which brings us back forward, and after the seventh trumpet there is equally a shift back in time backwards in time which brings us forward.
I’m proposing that the seals do EXACTLY THE SAME THING. After the sixth seal there is a shift in time backwards which then brings us forward, and likewise after the seventh seal there is then a shift backwards in time which includes the six trumpets which then again brings us forward.
----------------
First 5 seals = trumpets 1-6 up until the slaying of the two witnesses = great tribulation
Sixth Seal Trumpet six’s slaying of the two witnesses = signs in sun moon = Matthew 24
Seventh Seal = Day of the Lord = Thy wrath is come (6:17 = 11:18)
Seventh Trumpet sounds early on in the Day of the Lord
Seventh Seal – Seventh Trumpet = Day of Wrath = Seven Bowls
--------------------------
Regarding the 144,000 and the Great Crowd… the above scheme might actually make better sense out of these two than ever before. That which goes into the tribulation is a small election of Jews, but that which comes out of the tribulation is multitude which no man can number.
This would not be to say that the 144,000 do not still represent an elect class. They would in every age be those who maintained their first love and were Israelites indeed in who there was no guile, and who kept themselves undefiled. All these would be counted among the firstfruits. The vision does seem to show something remarkable though; namely what I stated above… that what went into the tribulation as a small election of Jews ‘a remnant according to the election of grace’ as Paul says, would produce by the end of the tribulation (those who came OUT OF the tribulation) a greater crowd than any could number. That is, the perpetuation of the remnant of the elect – sealed so that they cannot be destroyed – guarantees an enormous harvest of mankind throughout the centuries of tribulation.
PAUSES IN NARRATIVE
There is something here that I never noticed before, namely that in each sequence of seals, trumpets, and bowls, there is a pause following both the sixth and seventh in each series. Perhaps it might be better said that it is plain that there is recapitulation after both the sixth and seventh in the trumpet and bowl series… this lends credence to the theory that the same recapitulation exists in the seal series after both the sixth and seventh seals.
Within Seals
AFTER 6TH
Narrative stops at 6:17 (sixth seal) starts again at 8:1 (seventh seal)
Material inserted = sealing of 144,000 and great crowd (backs up to time earlier in sequence (sealing before trib.), and brings forward to present (after trib, before the day of the lord)
AFTER 7TH
Then immediately stops at 8:1 (seventh seal) and starts between 11:14 and 15 (day of the Lord – 7th Trumpet – wrath has come)
Material inserted=six trumpets (back up into tribulation (seals), brings forward to day of the lord (seventh seal)
Within Trumpets
AFTER 6TH
Narrative stops at 9:21 (sixth trumpet) starts again at 11:15 (seventh trumpet)
Material Inserted=Little Book, Measuring of Temple, Trampling 1260 days, Two Witnesses death and resurrection (backs up to time of earlier trumpets brings forward to present immediately preceding seventh trumpet)
AFTER 7TH
Narrative stops at 11:19 (temple opened) and starts again at 14:1 (harvest – noticed temple opened in 15:5)
Material Inserted=1260 Days (backs up to time of earlier trumpets, brings forward to day of the Lord – ‘if any man worship the beast or tae the mark, etc)
Within Bowls
AFTER 6TH
Narrative seems to stop after 16:12 (sixth bowl) starts again at 16:17
Material Inserted=Frogs gathering to the great battle (backs up to ??? brings forward to Armegeddon)
AFTER 7TH
Narrative stops at 16:21 (after seventh bowl) starts again in 19:1
Material Inserted=Description and Fall of Babylon
(Backs up to time of Babylon’s rise brings forward to second coming)
FIRST ROUGH DRAFT – NEW ATTEMPT AT RECONCILLIATION OF SEQUENCE OF APOCALYPTIC EVENTS
Purpose – There seems to be some confusion, at least on my part concerning the apocalyptic events as given in Matthew 24, when compared to those in Revelation. The confusion stems from the very clear reference to signs in the ‘sun moon stars, etc.
Jesus affirms that these signs, whether literal or indicative of some great shaking of nations, institutions, etc is immediately at the CLOSE of the period of ‘great tribulation’ and immediately PRECEDE the time of his appearance and second coming. Joel also states that the sun should be darkened and the moon not give light BEFORE the ‘great and terrible day of the Lord’. We affirm that the day of the Lord is to be contrasted with the great tribulation – one being man’s wrath against God’s people, and the latter God’s punitive wrath on the nations. Jesus’ return is explicitly IN the day of the Lord and thus follows the great tribulation.
In spite of arguments to the contrary, arguments with which I myself have asserted and defended, there seems to be a clear parallel of Matthew 24’s reference to the ‘sun moon and stars’ within the SIXTH SEAL of Revelation.
The evidence seems quite clear that the FIFTH seal at the least (or perhaps the prior four seals) with its reference to Martyrdom, and that more brethren must be killed – it seems to me that this may denote a time of ‘great tribulation’.
This seems borne out by the facts that the said martyrdom of the fifth seal is immediately followed by the signs in the ‘sun moon and stars’ delineated under the sixth seal.
Further evidence is given in the fact that the sixth seal seems to announce the great day of the Lord and the impending wrath to follow.
All of this seems to parallel Matthew 24 in a most uncanny way. Further evidence is borne out by the fact that after the sixth seal we are told of those who CAME OUT OF TRIBULATION – THE GREAT ONE. This indicates that THAT THERE MUST HAVE BEEN SOME MENTION OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION IN WHAT WENT BEFORE – NAMELY WITHIN THE PRIOR SEALS.
Matthew 24 gives a clear sequence – Great Tribulation, the signs in the sun moon and stars, the anguish of the nations during the ‘sign of the sun of man in heaven’ and his gathering of the elect and second advent – the events following the signs in the sun, moon, etc being those events of the ‘day of the Lord’
Our current (and now questionable) understanding is that the events of the sixth seal DO NOT parallel the signs in the ‘sun, moon stars’ etc as described in Matthew 24, but rather are a description of the eclipse of the truth and the introduction of doctrinal heresies in the fourth century which brought down the judgment of God.
It has been my position that at the time those in the Roman world believed that they were in fact living in the days of the Lamb’s wrath due to the horrific judgments which began to fall upon the Roman world, and hence the declaration that ‘the great day of His wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand’ as stated under the sixth seal.
Given the above, however, this seems a bit troublesome. The parallel of the events of the sixth seal – the reference to the ‘great tribulation’ and the day of the Lord seems as though the sixth seal is addressing those very events as given in Matthew 24. The reference to the ‘day of his wrath’ under our current understanding would only then reflect a PERCEPTION of those who lived in the Roman world of the 4th century and NOT ATUALLY A REALITY OR FACT -ALTHOUGH THERE IS NOTHING UNDER THE SIXTH SEAL WHICH WOULD LEAD US TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE LORD’S DAY HAD NOT COME IN REALITY, BUT ONLY IN THE PERCEPTION OF THOSE IN THE 4TH CENTURY.
Now the fact is, if we understand Revelation in such a way so that the trumpets are subsequent to the seals, and thus the bowls subsequent to the trumpets, then an understanding which makes the sixth seal coincident with the ‘sun moon etc’ of Matthew 24 seems completely impossible. It would be impossible for many reasons, but the following may suffice:
1) The tribulation would be over before any trumpet or bowl judgments took place. Remember that the signs in the sun, moon, etc FOLLOW the great tribulation. This would place all the events of the trumpets and bowls AFTER that period of great tribulation.
2) In our recent paper ‘Whoso Readeth, Let Him Understand’ we believe to have proven what the great tribulation is, being the time between the destruction of Jerusalem and the time immediately preceded by Jesus’ second advent, announced by the said signs in the ‘sun, moon, etc’
3) Daniel and Paul clearly place the Man of Sin, and his time of 1260 years WITHIN that period of tribulation.
4) Revelation places this Beast within the trumpets. If the trumpets are subsequent to the seals, and the sixth seal equals the astronomical signs of Matthew 24, then trumpets would FOLLOW the great tribulation, thus placing the reign of the beast AFTER the tribulation. As noted however Daniel makes it clear that the beast functions DURING the tribulation… therefore the two lines of thought seem incompatible.
I propose that in order to be more consistent in interpretation WE MUST TRY TO ALLOW THE SIXT SEAL TO BE THAT WHICH IT SO OBVIOUSLY SEEM TO BE – A DIRECT REFERENCE TO THE SIGNS IN THE ‘SUN MOON START ETC’ IN MATTHEW 24. We must also attempt as best we can to allow the ‘great day of the Lamb’s wrath’ as announced by that seal to be exactly what it purports to be.
It should go without saying that there is an undeniable principle of recapitulation within the Book of Revelation, in which one and the same time period is addressed by more than one passage. We note this in the following:
The sixth trumpet takes us first up to the destruction of Constantinople and the fall of the eastern Empire at the hands of the Turks. Then it describes the giving of the Scriptures in the following reformation. But then it must back up in time to describe the trampling of the temple by the Gentiles for 42 moths, and the prophesying of the witnesses – both events which do not begin subsequent to the prior mentioned events of the sixth seal, but PRIOR to those of events by many years. Thus the trampling of the temple court, and the prophesying of the two witnesses began BEFORE the events initially described by the sixth seal.
The text moves back and then takes us forward because the END of the 1260 days of both the witnesses prophesying and the trampling of the temple court IS SUBSEQUENT AND REPRESENTS SOME OF THE FINAL EVENTS OF THE SIXTH TRUMPET. The final events of the sixth trumpet being the rousing of the two witnesses and the ensuing signs following that event.
Then we are introduced immediately to the seventh trumpet, and the opening of the temple in heaven. But beginning in Chapter 12 the text once again goes BACKWARDS and describes both the Woman’s flight in the wilderness for 1260 years, and the reign of the two beasts in Chapter 13. Both of these chapters portray events which are NOT subsequent to the seventh trump, but rather PRECEDE the seventh trumpet.
It cannot be shown with any exactness exactly where these events fit in within the preceding trumpets, but it IS CLEAR that they belong to a time preceding the sounding of the seventh trumpet, and not following it. The narrative does not begin again in sequence until Revelation 14:1 which is the logic sequel to Revelation 11:19. Thus there is a principle of recapitulation in Revelation which cannot be denied.
Without detail at this time, I propose with great caution, that the same principle of recapitulation might be viewed within seals and trumpets, namely that the trumpets are not subsequent to, but rather recapitulate some of the material given in the seals.
For example in Revelation seven, after the opening of the sixth seal and announcing that the day of the Lamb’s wrath is at hand, there seems to be a break in the vision in which God’s servants are sealed, and the a great crowd is pointed out. Now of the great crowd it is said that they CAME OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBUALTION. If this is so, and if the sixth seal parallels the material in Matthew 24, then the salvation and cleansing of the great crowd occurred PRIOR to their mention here… in or during the judgments of the fifth seal, or even perhaps the prior seals.
Because the vision of the 144,00 seems linked to that of the great crowd, it also seems reasonable to suppose the sealing of the 144,000 took place DURING the previous seals, and NOT SUBSEQUENT to the sixth seal. We noted above how the text of Revelation backs up, gives more information, and then brings us back forward in time. Could this be the case here?
Might it be possible that Revelation 6 describes the six seals and takes up right up until the brink of the Day of the Lord, then in chapter seven pauses to tell us that God’s elect would be sealed during those times of tribulation as well as the fact that there would be a great harvest of mankind as a result of that tribulation. Thus Revelation 8:1 is the logical sequel to 6:17, with the intervening material of chapter 7 being a recapitulation of the first seals. If this is so then it might also seem plausible that the trumpets (at least the first six – more on this later) sound BEFORE the opening of the 7th seal, and not subsequent to the seventh seal. The seals take us forward to the day of wrath, then the trumpets move backward and take us forward again.
Consider this also, that the day of the Lamb’s wrath (the day of the Lord) is announced with the opening of the sixth seal… that is, it would follow shortly following the events of that seal. Why then do we read at the sounding of the seventh trumpet that ‘THY WRATH IS COME’? If the trumpets are subsequent to the seals then the ‘Lamb’s wrath’ would have started many centuries earlier. ‘Thy wrath has come’ indicates the beginning of the day of the Lord, but if the sixth seal is allowed to mean what it says, then that day of wrath would have had to have begun in the 4th century… UNLESS IT MAY BE THAT THE TRUMPETS RECAPITULATE THE EVENTS OF THE SEALS.
Therefore the logical sequel to Revelation 8:1 is not the seven trumpets, but rather the sounding of the seventh trumpet.
If this recapitulation is true, notice then that the slaying of the two witnesses would not only coincide with the astronomical signs of Matthew 24, but ALSO with those of the sixth seal… and just as the wrath of God is announced in sixth seal as that which is soon to come, but we also read immediately in the seventh trumpet that ‘thy wrath is come’. As there is an earthquake announced under the sixth seal, so is there an earthquake associated with the sixth trumpet on the ascension of the witnesses to heaven.
Because the resurrection signaled by the 7th trumpet must take place IN the day of the Lord, then the day of the Lord and the opening of the seventh seal must take place BETWEEN the ascent of the two witnesses and the resurrection. We read that the after the sixth trumpet the seventh comes ‘quickly’ but not ‘immediately’ see timeline. We also read in Rev 8:1 that at the opening of the sixth seal there is silence in heaven about the space of half a hour’.. . this may indicate part of the time between the beginning of the day of the Lord and the sounding of the seventh trumpet which takes place in that day.
I should point out that I believe that the bowl judgments are absolutely subsequent to seals and trumpets and that THOSE judgments represent the judgments associated with the Lord’s Day. They represent the wrath of God, not the great tribulation.
In short it seems to me that the seals sketch out two great epochs – the great tribulation, and the Day of the Lord. These two epochs are then detailed, the trumpets being the events of the great tribulation, and the bowls beings the events of the day of the Lord. The 144,00 are on earth during the prior and in heaven during the latter, hence their first mention exactly between these two epochs as sketched out in the seals.
FURTHER COMMENTS
If the great tribulation precedes the opening of the sixth seal, as a comparison with Matthew 24 would seem to indicate(as is also indicated by the reference to those who CAME OUT OF the great tribulation) then we might ask in what way this might affect our view of the first four seals.
I might ask if it might not seem possible that the first rider on the white horse is not only Rome prosperous and conquering, but might it be a presentation of Rome that conquered and destroyed Jerusalem. That desolating of Jerusalem was to mark the start of the great tribulation… might it seem fitting that the seals begin exactly with those events which began the tribulation. This then would match Matthew 24 and Daniel 11, that the great tribulation is bounded by the destruction of Jerusalem on one end, and the signs in the sun moon and stars (the consummation) on the other end. Thus we read after the sixth seal of those who had come out of the great tribulation.
---------------
Notice also then a seeming type of parallel… after the sixth trumpet there is a shift backwards in time which brings us back forward, and after the seventh trumpet there is equally a shift back in time backwards in time which brings us forward.
I’m proposing that the seals do EXACTLY THE SAME THING. After the sixth seal there is a shift in time backwards which then brings us forward, and likewise after the seventh seal there is then a shift backwards in time which includes the six trumpets which then again brings us forward.
----------------
First 5 seals = trumpets 1-6 up until the slaying of the two witnesses = great tribulation
Sixth Seal Trumpet six’s slaying of the two witnesses = signs in sun moon = Matthew 24
Seventh Seal = Day of the Lord = Thy wrath is come (6:17 = 11:18)
Seventh Trumpet sounds early on in the Day of the Lord
Seventh Seal – Seventh Trumpet = Day of Wrath = Seven Bowls
--------------------------
Regarding the 144,000 and the Great Crowd… the above scheme might actually make better sense out of these two than ever before. That which goes into the tribulation is a small election of Jews, but that which comes out of the tribulation is multitude which no man can number.
This would not be to say that the 144,000 do not still represent an elect class. They would in every age be those who maintained their first love and were Israelites indeed in who there was no guile, and who kept themselves undefiled. All these would be counted among the firstfruits. The vision does seem to show something remarkable though; namely what I stated above… that what went into the tribulation as a small election of Jews ‘a remnant according to the election of grace’ as Paul says, would produce by the end of the tribulation (those who came OUT OF the tribulation) a greater crowd than any could number. That is, the perpetuation of the remnant of the elect – sealed so that they cannot be destroyed – guarantees an enormous harvest of mankind throughout the centuries of tribulation.
PAUSES IN NARRATIVE
There is something here that I never noticed before, namely that in each sequence of seals, trumpets, and bowls, there is a pause following both the sixth and seventh in each series. Perhaps it might be better said that it is plain that there is recapitulation after both the sixth and seventh in the trumpet and bowl series… this lends credence to the theory that the same recapitulation exists in the seal series after both the sixth and seventh seals.
Within Seals
AFTER 6TH
Narrative stops at 6:17 (sixth seal) starts again at 8:1 (seventh seal)
Material inserted = sealing of 144,000 and great crowd (backs up to time earlier in sequence (sealing before trib.), and brings forward to present (after trib, before the day of the lord)
AFTER 7TH
Then immediately stops at 8:1 (seventh seal) and starts between 11:14 and 15 (day of the Lord – 7th Trumpet – wrath has come)
Material inserted=six trumpets (back up into tribulation (seals), brings forward to day of the lord (seventh seal)
Within Trumpets
AFTER 6TH
Narrative stops at 9:21 (sixth trumpet) starts again at 11:15 (seventh trumpet)
Material Inserted=Little Book, Measuring of Temple, Trampling 1260 days, Two Witnesses death and resurrection (backs up to time of earlier trumpets brings forward to present immediately preceding seventh trumpet)
AFTER 7TH
Narrative stops at 11:19 (temple opened) and starts again at 14:1 (harvest – noticed temple opened in 15:5)
Material Inserted=1260 Days (backs up to time of earlier trumpets, brings forward to day of the Lord – ‘if any man worship the beast or tae the mark, etc)
Within Bowls
AFTER 6TH
Narrative seems to stop after 16:12 (sixth bowl) starts again at 16:17
Material Inserted=Frogs gathering to the great battle (backs up to ??? brings forward to Armegeddon)
AFTER 7TH
Narrative stops at 16:21 (after seventh bowl) starts again in 19:1
Material Inserted=Description and Fall of Babylon
(Backs up to time of Babylon’s rise brings forward to second coming)
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