ON THE SNATCHING AWAY OF THE ELECT
Hello Chris and Rhonda,
I agree with Chris that these are interesting thoughts about the resurrection. I know that in some ways this is the same as the JW view – that there is no ‘snatching away’ of the elect, but that during Christ’s presence those of the elect who die are caught up without sleeping as opposed to those who had to sleep in death prior to Christ’s presence.
Over the years I have considered this matter carefully and for now I’m going to say that I respectfully disagree with that particular view.
------------------------------------------------------------
1Co 15:51-52
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Notice, it is at the last trump that both the dead are raised and the living are changed. Both of these events are said to take place ‘in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye’. These verses do not seem to me to indicate that some would be changed instantly upon DEATH, but that some would not die at all. It seems clear to me from this passage that ‘in a moment, a twinkling of an eye’ that the dead are raised first, and the LIVING (not some who die and don’t sleep) are changed. To my mind these verses militate against the idea of some dying and going immediately to heaven over a long parousia.
Again, notice the import of the passage - Jehovah's Witnesses read this passage as 'We are all changed in the twinkling of an eye, the dead first, then those who are alive during the parousia are changed instantly as they die'. But this is not what the passage says:
'We shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed'... WHEN?
'In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET.'
This passage simply does not denote a succession of 'eye twinkling events' but that the entire resurrection and change, both of the living and the dead takes place suddenly 'at the last trumpet'.
To my mind the contrast here is clearly between those who are alive at Christ's return and those who are dead, not between those who die before the parousia and those who die during the parousia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1Th 4:15-18
(15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Here we see again the same ‘trumpet’, but notice from the previous passage that the events of this trumpet take place ‘in the twinkling of an eye’ – the events are ‘In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye AT THE LAST TRUMPET’.
And notice again that the thought here is certainly not that all have to die, but that some are still LIVING when this trumpet sounds. It is the living - ‘we who are ALIVE and remain’ - that are caught up. Where is there a hint in these verses that all would have to die? To my mind they convey the very opposite thought.
I know that the Pastor Russell and the JW’s would say that the events of this trumpet occur over an extended period of time, but that is not the issue here: ALL are changed ‘in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye’ AT the last trumpet.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rhonda you suggested that you do not believe in a ‘whisking away’ of the elect. I am no fan of sensational scenarios, but in this case I feel that the thought is in the text.
Caught Up
NT:726
harpazo (har-pad'-zo); from a derivative of NT:138; to sieze (in various applications):
KJV - catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).
(From Strong’s Lexicon)
NT:726
harpazoo;
to seize, carry off by force: ti (Matt 12:29)
to seize on, claim for oneself eagerly: Matt 11:12
to snatch out or away: Matt 13:19 ; ti ek cheiros tinos, John 10:28 f; tina ek puros, proverbial, to rescue from the danger of destruction, Jude 23 to seize and carry off speedily, John 6:15; Acts 23:10;
used of divine power transferring a person marvellously and swiftly from one place to another, to snatch or catch away: Acts 8:39;
passive, Rev 12:5
(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon)
These words do not indicate the slow dying off of the elect over a long parousia but a swift and violent snatching away by force. Whether this seems sensational or not, the sudden, violent snatching away of the LIVING ELECT is the thought conveyed by these words.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mat 24:29-32
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(32) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:
Again, notice the time elements involved in these verses…
IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation mentioned the following events are to occur:
1) The sign of the Son of Man in heaven causing the tribes of the earth to mourn
2) Then they see Jesus coming
3) The elect are gathered – again with the sound of a great trumpet
It is at this trumpet that resurrection takes place ‘in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye’. These passages simply do not allow time, nor do they (to my mind) give the sense of the elect dying off over a long parousia.
Notice that the ‘elect’ are not gathered until a time ‘immediately after the tribulation’. Notice how it follows the sign of the Son of Man, and the mourning of the tribes of the earth as they see Him coming. These verses simply do not speak of an extended period of time but of a very brief period at the very end of this age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris has asked how such a snatching away could escape the notice of the world and has offered several very logical scenarios. I would like to add one more thought to that.
Chris and Rhonda, I believe very strongly that the ‘elect’ still living will be so few when Jesus returns that – on a worldwide scale- their disappearance will cause little reason for alarm and maybe will result in a few missing persons cases. We are after all taking here about the ‘very elect’. Jesus himself said over and over that the elect would be few – that many would strive to enter in at the narrow gate and would not be able to.
Luk 18:8
(8) … Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
Why did Jesus ask this question? We live in a time of multi-million dollar ‘Christian’
Ministries. A vast majority of the American population claims to be Christian – yet Jesus still asks this question; will he find faith on earth?
My dear Brother and Sister – I do not know who the elect are. I certainly would not claim to be one of them, although I try to press toward that goal and prize. I do feel though that whoever the elect are will be few in number when our Lord returns – it is my belief that their disappearance will go mostly unnoticed by the world in general and cause little alarm.
--David
Hello Chris and Rhonda,
I agree with Chris that these are interesting thoughts about the resurrection. I know that in some ways this is the same as the JW view – that there is no ‘snatching away’ of the elect, but that during Christ’s presence those of the elect who die are caught up without sleeping as opposed to those who had to sleep in death prior to Christ’s presence.
Over the years I have considered this matter carefully and for now I’m going to say that I respectfully disagree with that particular view.
------------------------------------------------------------
1Co 15:51-52
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Notice, it is at the last trump that both the dead are raised and the living are changed. Both of these events are said to take place ‘in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye’. These verses do not seem to me to indicate that some would be changed instantly upon DEATH, but that some would not die at all. It seems clear to me from this passage that ‘in a moment, a twinkling of an eye’ that the dead are raised first, and the LIVING (not some who die and don’t sleep) are changed. To my mind these verses militate against the idea of some dying and going immediately to heaven over a long parousia.
Again, notice the import of the passage - Jehovah's Witnesses read this passage as 'We are all changed in the twinkling of an eye, the dead first, then those who are alive during the parousia are changed instantly as they die'. But this is not what the passage says:
'We shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed'... WHEN?
'In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET.'
This passage simply does not denote a succession of 'eye twinkling events' but that the entire resurrection and change, both of the living and the dead takes place suddenly 'at the last trumpet'.
To my mind the contrast here is clearly between those who are alive at Christ's return and those who are dead, not between those who die before the parousia and those who die during the parousia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1Th 4:15-18
(15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Here we see again the same ‘trumpet’, but notice from the previous passage that the events of this trumpet take place ‘in the twinkling of an eye’ – the events are ‘In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye AT THE LAST TRUMPET’.
And notice again that the thought here is certainly not that all have to die, but that some are still LIVING when this trumpet sounds. It is the living - ‘we who are ALIVE and remain’ - that are caught up. Where is there a hint in these verses that all would have to die? To my mind they convey the very opposite thought.
I know that the Pastor Russell and the JW’s would say that the events of this trumpet occur over an extended period of time, but that is not the issue here: ALL are changed ‘in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye’ AT the last trumpet.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rhonda you suggested that you do not believe in a ‘whisking away’ of the elect. I am no fan of sensational scenarios, but in this case I feel that the thought is in the text.
Caught Up
NT:726
harpazo (har-pad'-zo); from a derivative of NT:138; to sieze (in various applications):
KJV - catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).
(From Strong’s Lexicon)
NT:726
harpazoo;
to seize, carry off by force: ti (Matt 12:29)
to seize on, claim for oneself eagerly: Matt 11:12
to snatch out or away: Matt 13:19 ; ti ek cheiros tinos, John 10:28 f; tina ek puros, proverbial, to rescue from the danger of destruction, Jude 23 to seize and carry off speedily, John 6:15; Acts 23:10;
used of divine power transferring a person marvellously and swiftly from one place to another, to snatch or catch away: Acts 8:39;
passive, Rev 12:5
(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon)
These words do not indicate the slow dying off of the elect over a long parousia but a swift and violent snatching away by force. Whether this seems sensational or not, the sudden, violent snatching away of the LIVING ELECT is the thought conveyed by these words.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mat 24:29-32
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(32) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:
Again, notice the time elements involved in these verses…
IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation mentioned the following events are to occur:
1) The sign of the Son of Man in heaven causing the tribes of the earth to mourn
2) Then they see Jesus coming
3) The elect are gathered – again with the sound of a great trumpet
It is at this trumpet that resurrection takes place ‘in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye’. These passages simply do not allow time, nor do they (to my mind) give the sense of the elect dying off over a long parousia.
Notice that the ‘elect’ are not gathered until a time ‘immediately after the tribulation’. Notice how it follows the sign of the Son of Man, and the mourning of the tribes of the earth as they see Him coming. These verses simply do not speak of an extended period of time but of a very brief period at the very end of this age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris has asked how such a snatching away could escape the notice of the world and has offered several very logical scenarios. I would like to add one more thought to that.
Chris and Rhonda, I believe very strongly that the ‘elect’ still living will be so few when Jesus returns that – on a worldwide scale- their disappearance will cause little reason for alarm and maybe will result in a few missing persons cases. We are after all taking here about the ‘very elect’. Jesus himself said over and over that the elect would be few – that many would strive to enter in at the narrow gate and would not be able to.
Luk 18:8
(8) … Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
Why did Jesus ask this question? We live in a time of multi-million dollar ‘Christian’
Ministries. A vast majority of the American population claims to be Christian – yet Jesus still asks this question; will he find faith on earth?
My dear Brother and Sister – I do not know who the elect are. I certainly would not claim to be one of them, although I try to press toward that goal and prize. I do feel though that whoever the elect are will be few in number when our Lord returns – it is my belief that their disappearance will go mostly unnoticed by the world in general and cause little alarm.
--David
0 Comments:
Post a Comment
<< Home