MORE MUSINGS ON THE ‘LAKE OF FIRE’
Ok, these are just some off the cuff, crazy thoughts which may or may not lead anywhere, but I’ll record them here for posterity (whoever posterity may be)…
I have recently come to define the ‘lake of fire’ as those judgments which are associated with the ‘Day of the Lord’. I would define ‘Day of the Lord’ as that period which briefly overlaps the current age beginning with the seventh trumpet, includes the bowl judgments, and extends all the way through the millennium unto the close of the last age – the ‘age of the ages’.
Now Chris, you and I have discussed a possible scenario in which the 1000 years is the time of Israel’s resurrection and perfection. There will also be other nations which will live through the close of this age into the millennium. They will also multiply during the 1000 years.
Now consider something like this:
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out.
(Luk 13:28)
Or:
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mat 8:11-12)
Now the people who Jesus was speaking to here were Jews. In the resurrection it is said that these will be ‘thrust out’, or confined to outer darkness. My question is, thrust out to where? It doesn’t seem possible that they would just be allowed to wander in the nations outside Jerusalem. Notice also that they are cast into ‘outer darkness’. Consider also this:
Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
(Mat 18:32-35)
Notice here that the wicked servant is delivered to ‘the tormentors’ and can’t get out until he pays for everything! Again, my question is, exactly WHERE are they delivered? If they are thrust out of the city, away from the presence of Abraham Isaac, and Jacob, and are delivered into ‘outer darkness’, and the ‘tormentors’, then are we to understand this as a literal place?
This is something I’ve been thinking about, and have come up with some ideas. Consider this from Ezekiel:
Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: [which being] brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, [that] every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. And it shall come to pass, [that] the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a [place] to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt. (Eze 47:8-11)
Speaking here of the waters of life which flow from the city, we see that every place the waters flow, that place is healed, however, the above implies that there is a place, or places, where the waters do not flow, and that these places are not healed. Could the wicked be confined for a season to these places where these waters do not flow? Are these places the ‘outer darkness’ and the places where the wicked are driven for a season.
Additionally, concerning the destruction of Babylon the Great we read:
And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
(Rev 19:3)
Notice that Babylon’s smoke is to rise to the ‘ages of the ages’ (forever and ever is not a correct translation). This means that Babylon would not be healed either during the 1000 years, nor during the age following. It remains a wasteland for that entire period. We also read that the Beast and False prophet (which I understand to be Western Europe and the United States) are cast into the lake of fire prior to the 1000 years. Now in Daniel 7, we read that this Beast being given to the flames means that it’s dominion shall be taken away and consumed and destroyed unto the end. (The end of the ages??) But, it also says that the other beasts lives are prolonged for a season.
So, what to make of all this? Is this teaching that in the resurrection there are definite lands that act as a sort of prison? Lands where the healing waters do not flow, and where death and hades still exist in this ‘lake of fire’? Specifically, are the Western European nations to be turned into these lands where many will find themselves banished from our Lord’s presence until the proper judgment is rendered and they are led to repentance? Could the ‘lake of fire’ have reference to these lands where the judgment of God still burns unto the ‘ages of the ages’?
Additions and corrections welcome as always.
--David
Ok, these are just some off the cuff, crazy thoughts which may or may not lead anywhere, but I’ll record them here for posterity (whoever posterity may be)…
I have recently come to define the ‘lake of fire’ as those judgments which are associated with the ‘Day of the Lord’. I would define ‘Day of the Lord’ as that period which briefly overlaps the current age beginning with the seventh trumpet, includes the bowl judgments, and extends all the way through the millennium unto the close of the last age – the ‘age of the ages’.
Now Chris, you and I have discussed a possible scenario in which the 1000 years is the time of Israel’s resurrection and perfection. There will also be other nations which will live through the close of this age into the millennium. They will also multiply during the 1000 years.
Now consider something like this:
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out.
(Luk 13:28)
Or:
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mat 8:11-12)
Now the people who Jesus was speaking to here were Jews. In the resurrection it is said that these will be ‘thrust out’, or confined to outer darkness. My question is, thrust out to where? It doesn’t seem possible that they would just be allowed to wander in the nations outside Jerusalem. Notice also that they are cast into ‘outer darkness’. Consider also this:
Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
(Mat 18:32-35)
Notice here that the wicked servant is delivered to ‘the tormentors’ and can’t get out until he pays for everything! Again, my question is, exactly WHERE are they delivered? If they are thrust out of the city, away from the presence of Abraham Isaac, and Jacob, and are delivered into ‘outer darkness’, and the ‘tormentors’, then are we to understand this as a literal place?
This is something I’ve been thinking about, and have come up with some ideas. Consider this from Ezekiel:
Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: [which being] brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, [that] every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. And it shall come to pass, [that] the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a [place] to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt. (Eze 47:8-11)
Speaking here of the waters of life which flow from the city, we see that every place the waters flow, that place is healed, however, the above implies that there is a place, or places, where the waters do not flow, and that these places are not healed. Could the wicked be confined for a season to these places where these waters do not flow? Are these places the ‘outer darkness’ and the places where the wicked are driven for a season.
Additionally, concerning the destruction of Babylon the Great we read:
And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
(Rev 19:3)
Notice that Babylon’s smoke is to rise to the ‘ages of the ages’ (forever and ever is not a correct translation). This means that Babylon would not be healed either during the 1000 years, nor during the age following. It remains a wasteland for that entire period. We also read that the Beast and False prophet (which I understand to be Western Europe and the United States) are cast into the lake of fire prior to the 1000 years. Now in Daniel 7, we read that this Beast being given to the flames means that it’s dominion shall be taken away and consumed and destroyed unto the end. (The end of the ages??) But, it also says that the other beasts lives are prolonged for a season.
So, what to make of all this? Is this teaching that in the resurrection there are definite lands that act as a sort of prison? Lands where the healing waters do not flow, and where death and hades still exist in this ‘lake of fire’? Specifically, are the Western European nations to be turned into these lands where many will find themselves banished from our Lord’s presence until the proper judgment is rendered and they are led to repentance? Could the ‘lake of fire’ have reference to these lands where the judgment of God still burns unto the ‘ages of the ages’?
Additions and corrections welcome as always.
--David
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