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Saturday, October 25, 2003

The short of it is:

The bride goes into the 1000yrs wearing white and comes out adorned with fine jewelry and ornaments( newly corrected/taught Christians and Jews who do not reject the Kingdom). But all we notice is the bride as a whole.

Chris

Friday, October 24, 2003

The Bride (Take your time with this one; it's kinda long. Might want to save it for a no-headache day.)

Hey David,

The passage in Luke 12 explained in your article "When He shall Return..." does clearly state, in my mind that the "bride" is the elect that are gathered at the seventh trumpet, or better yet, for "the wedding".

My dilemma has been harmonizing this with the bride referred to in Revelation 19 as well as new Jerusalem adorned as a bride in chapter 21...all this while going on the theory that the 1000yrs is for the restoration and perfection of "Israel".

I think, however that I have found the explanation. The bride of Rev 19...
Rev 19:7 Let us rejoice and be exceeding glad, and let us give the glory unto him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And it was given unto her that she should array herself in fine linen, bright and pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

The white linen here is obviously defined as the righteous acts of the saints, pointing to the elect who have "made themselves ready"....not by works but by choosing to follow Christ and being washed clean by the blood. Also, linen is clothing, not "adornments".

Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they that are bidden to the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are true words of God.

As is stated in Luke, the ones bidden are guests to be FED by the bride/faithful servant....I put this in the 1000yrs, so I will call the 1000yrs the Wedding Supper.

The problem for me has been Rev 21...
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven of God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God:

...If Jerusalem represents the bride, but, this passage is for the era immediately following the 1000yrs, then who now is the bride? My question was, do those who are fed become part of the bride? Maybe so, but, I believe Isaiah holds the key...

Isa 49:14 But Zion said, Jehovah hath forsaken me, and the Lord hath forgotten me.
Isa 49:15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, these may forget, yet will not I forget thee.
Isa 49:18 Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith Jehovah, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all as with an ornament, and gird thyself with them, like a bride.

Barnes commentary says....Zion is here represented, as it is often elsewhere, as a female; and the accession of converts from abroad is represented under the figure of bridal ornaments. The accession of converts karo the Gentiles should be to her what jewels are to a bride.

So, those who are FED might actually be considered the ornaments or adornments of the Bride that comes out of heaven and into the nations in Rev 21. This means no conflict in identity, and doesn't necessarily put one class above another, but, gives us a union and timeframe without neglecting harmony of scripture.

To enlighten further, I read up on the marriage ceremonies in the ISBE. Obviously the betrothal period started with the price paid by Christ on the cross, but the descriptions of the next two parts of the Marriage ceremony I found very interesting.....

ISBE---The first ceremony, the wedding procession, apparently a relic of marriage by capture (compare Jdg_5:30; Psa_45:15), was the first part of the proceedings. The bridegroom's friends (Joh_3:29) went, usually by night, to fetch the bride and her attendants to the home of the groom (Mat_9:15; Joh_3:29). The joyousness of it all is witnessed by the proverbial voice of the bridegroom and the cry, Behold the bridegroom cometh! (Jer_7:34; Rev_18:23). The procession was preferably by night, chiefly, we may infer, that those busy in the day might attend, and that, in accordance with the oriental love of scenic effects, the weird panorama of lights and torches might play an engaging and kindling part.

Chris--In a spiritual way, the apostles/"friends"(John 3:29/Matt 9:15) have been bringing the bride to Christ over the last 2000years through the Bible, but, it seems more fitting that the wedding procession and fetching of the bride can be found in Matt 24 with the gathering of the elect as well as 1 Thess 4:16-17; also the parable of the virgins could fit here although the ISBE makes reference to it later. We also come right back to Rev. 19:7 with the marriage of the Lamb.

ISBE---The marriage supper then followed, generally in the home of the groom. Today in Syria, as Dr. Mackie, of Beirut, says, when both parties live in the same town, the reception may take place in either home; but the older tradition points to the house of the groom's parents as the proper place. It is the bringing home of an already accredited bride to her covenanted husband. She is escorted by a company of attendants of her own sex and by male relatives and friends conveying on mules or by porters articles of furniture and decoration for the new home. As the marriage usually takes place in the evening, the house is given up for the day to the women who are busy robing the bride and making ready for the coming hospitality. The bridegroom is absent at the house of a relative or friend, where men congregate in the evening for the purpose of escorting him home. When he indicates that it is time to go, all rise up, and candles and torches are supplied to those who are to form the procession, and they move off. It is a very picturesque sight to see such a procession moving along the unlighted way in the stillness of the starry night, while, if it be in town or city, on each side of the narrow street, from the flat housetop or balcony, crowds look down, and the women take up the peculiar cry of wedding joy that tells those farther along that the pageant has started. This cry is taken up all along the route, and gives warning to those who are waiting with the bride that it is time to arise and light up the approach, and welcome the bridegroom with honor. As at the house where the bridegroom receives his friends before starting some come late, and speeches of congratulation have to be made, and poems have to be recited or sung in praise of the groom, and to the honor of his family, it is often near midnight when the procession begins. Meanwhile, as the night wears on, and the duties of robing the bride and adorning the house are all done, a period of relaxing and drowsy waiting sets in, as when, in the New Testament parable, both the wise and the foolish virgins were overcome with sleep. In their case the distant cry on the street brought the warning to prepare for the reception, and then came the discovery of the exhausted oil.

Chris---One of my Bible dictionaries clarifies this a bit more by saying that the "supper" usually lasts for several days, while the guests are attended to, then the bride adorns herself for the procession to the wedding chamber. Again, I would apply the application of the ten virgins to the first ceremony. Nonetheless, with the verse in Isaiah calling converts, or (to me) ones invited to the wedding supper, adornments of a bride, alongside the events of the Jewish marriage ceremonies, I think we might be able to make the bride more specific as the elect while not neglecting the rest of "Israel" and still putting these groups under the 1000yr reign.

To recap:
The betrothal. Christ's sacrifice...and promise to Christ from the Apostles...
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy: for I espoused you to one husband, that I might present you as a pure virgin to Christ.

The Wedding Procession The gathering of the "bride" to the house.

The Wedding Supper The "guests" are fed and the bride adorns herself with these.

New Jerusalem comes out of heaven adorned as a bride.

Just so it is stated, I do not believe that this advocates one class as being above or more important than another except in authority for a time.

Mat 20:26 Not so shall it be among you: but whosoever would become great among you shall be your minister;

Comments or corrections at your leisure. If anything, we can use this as a format for discussion.

Chris



Tuesday, October 14, 2003

Yes, Rhonda, once I started examining the possibilities of universal reconciliation, it became easier and easier to look at someone else and imagine them as either a potential Christian or a potential "loving" Christian regardless of the current standing.

At least if UR ultimately turns out as false in some way (as yet undetermined) I would rather have the hope that the world will ultimately be drawn to Christ, in whatever order or age/eon, than to relentlessly seek ways to separate ourselves due to knowledge system. Anyway, it still is hard to watch these people wrestle with each other and divide themselves over anything they think is right by them.

I'll be ever so happy when Christ manifests himself and, not THEY, but, WE all are shown the complete truth.

Chris

Monday, October 13, 2003

I am deeply troubled tonight.

I have spent some time in the last few weeks travelling more than usual on the net, observing the activities of "Christians". I could probably stop there for sufficient reason for my distress. Any way, all I have seen is ridiculous amount of hatred, not for a lack FAITH in Christ, but, for differences in knowledge about Christ.

Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is proclaimed throughout the whole world.

Not knowledge..FAITH!!

"Yet, if you don't believe like I do then you are not deserving of my love or Christ's love,..thus saith ME."

Col 1:3 We give thanks to God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
Col 1:4 having heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have toward all the saints,


Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray and make request for you, that ye may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,

The love and faith that is existing is cause for prayer that knowledge MAY increase.

The priorities of the world are skewed and reversed. I know I am preaching to the choir, but, I feel better having the words out, than kept in.

Love and Faith in Christ, Regardless of any differing interpretations,

Chris

Wednesday, October 01, 2003

Hey Guys,

I have an observation to present.

Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and their blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mar 3:29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin:

Given our limited discussion of "to the age"; this passage was delivered to the Jews who denied Christ's power (Spirit) came from God the Father, but, we also have Colossians 1 where we have all things possibly reconciled. Are Christians in fear of committing this sin when actually the real sin was committed by the Jews who accused him of having a demon instead of God's Spirit and that is why they are not to be forgiven until the 1000yr reign or beyond?


Help me fill in the blanks.

Chris